Rogue element

From jazz experiments to rock and roll heroics with Wilco, Nels Cline shreds

As a teenager, Nels Cline idolized Leon Russell.

“I just wanted to be him, you know?”, the guitarist told me over the phone from his home in Brooklyn. “I wanted to look as cool as him, I wanted to have his, like, insane kind of musicianship and leadership ability.

Besides spending the last 13 years with Wilco—who will play at Brady Theater on September 24—Cline’s career extends back to the late ‘70s, mostly in what he calls “instrumental music of a rather vague genre” (think: free jazz). His inspired playing ranges from sublime melodies to textured electronic noise. In 2016, he release a double-album, Lovers, an homage and update to instrumental mood music of the ‘50s and ‘60s.

Over the next year, Cline’s plans include touring Europe playing Lovers with local orchestras, touring in drummer Bobby Previte’s group with sax player Greg Osby and keyboardist John Medeski, writing music for “The Call”—a secular mass commissioned by the State of Minnesota, and recording projects with drummer Scott Amendola, harpist Zeena Parkins, clarinetist Ben Goldberg, guitarist Julian Lage, his wife (multi-instrumentalist and Cibo Matto co-founder) Yuka Honda, and his bands Eyebone, The Nels Cline Singers, and The Nels Cline Quartet. Insane musicianship and leadership ability achieved.

In short, bear witness to yet another master of space and time.

John Langdon: I’m gonna try not to talk all about guitars the entire time but I have to start with one question: do you have a favorite guitar?

Nels Cline: My favorite electric guitar is the [Fender] Jazzmaster that I play with Wilco primarily that I bought from Mike Watt [of Minutemen] in 1995. And my favorite acoustic guitar is a little Martin 00-17 from 1952 that I’ve had since maybe ‘77 or so.

Langdon: Who were some of your early musical heroes, the people that you heard and it made you go, ‘I want to do that’?

Cline: The reason I play guitar is specifically Jimi Hendrix, having heard “Manic Depression” back when that Are you Experienced? album had just been released. Man, the list is quite massive.

At that time, I was listening to The Byrds and a lot to Jimi and I moved into an area of just blues-rock. I was really into Duane Allman and I think back on it now, there were certain people that had a melodic style that I tried to emulate but I think that it’s important to remember, for me anyway, that I was a really crummy guitar player. I mean, I didn’t know anything. My dad showed me an E chord because he was taking folk guitar lessons at night school, but other than that I didn’t know what I was doing at all. So to utter the names of these gentlemen is perhaps a bit fatuous on my part because I’m not sure what I really got from them except that I loved listening to them.Cline: The reason I play guitar is specifically Jimi Hendrix, having heard “Manic Depression” back when that Are you Experienced? album had just been released. Man, the list is quite massive. At that time, I was listening to The Byrds and a lot to Jimi and I moved into an area of just blues-rock.

So besides Duane and Johnny Winter, I used to listen to all British blues kind of stuff before I got into the real thing, you know, which I guess is true of a lot of suburban type people. I was listening to Dave Edmunds and Rory Gallagher and I actually got a lot of melodic information from—besides Duane and Dickie [Betts]—Peter Frampton, when he was playing with Humble Pie. My brother listened to Frank Zappa constantly so I know that I got some Zappa in me through that. I really liked, a little bit later, guitarists like Peter Banks who was in Yes before Steve Howe, and then Steve Howe of course, and Jan Akkerman, those kind of guys.

But then I heard John Coltrane, and I started getting interested in what we call jazz or improvised music. And that led me to John McLaughlin and Ralph Towner, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Pat Martino, John Abercrombie, Pat Metheny, all those guys. That was that phase where it was sort of the jazz exploration, what we now call fusion but at that time we called it jazz-rock. And I got really interested in some more straight ahead guys like Jim Hall but I was also listening to classical guitar guys like Julian Bream, who was a big hero and played some really interesting repertoire. His 20th Century Guitar and his record 70's were really important. And listening to composers like Leo Brouwer and Benjamin Britten’s [“Nocturnal After John Dowland”]. Derek Bailey was of interest. Fred Frith was a huge inspiration as well. Not just the Henry Cow music that I listened to in high school but then his solo, guitars-on-tables experiments and all kinds of other things that he would do.

Anyway, so I was listening to music like that and trying to figure out what the heck to do with the electric guitar, and I sort of gravitated towards playing more acoustic guitar in the 80's. It was a little confusing. I mean, I was playing electric guitar, I was playing it with this band called BLOC, I was playing it with Julius Hemphill, but I don’t think I was sure of myself, you know? I felt more sure of myself on the acoustic guitar in those days.

Langdon: You’re known for an impressive arsenal of electronics and effects and gadgets and things. How did you find your way back to the electric guitar?

Cline: I don’t know exactly. I think that what really helped was that I finally started my own group [The Nels Cline Trio]—and that was really late in the game. I was playing in groups with my twin brother Alex, my whole life, various types of ensembles and not really ever thinking about tone, production, pedals or any of that kind of stuff. I was just thinking about notes. I’m sure if I listened to whatever I was playing back then—and by the time I was in high school I was already focused on instrumental music of a rather vague genre—I think you would probably hear some pretty gnarly tone because I didn’t know anything about it.

It was when I started playing in an improvising trio with my brother and a man named Brian Horner called Spiral that I started using some effects. It all started because my friend Vinny Golia left an Echoplex in my room and that led to—I guess just sort of a weird kind of acumen with being able to imagine what an effects pedal can do and how to get sounds that I think one would normally associate with the recording studio. And that’s the beauty of effects pedals at this point: it enables musicians to emulate or get sounds that one normally in the 60's and early 70's associated only with the recording studio.

I just think that it’s all about imagination, and the more I started doing some kind of manipulated sounds, the happier I was with playing electric guitar. (Laughs) But it was all kind of accidental. I mean, I really wasn’t on a mission to use effects pedals or to not use them, you know, and I still am not actually, but it has become a thing. I think that I can imagine certain kinds of sounds and filter my imagination through these boxes. It’s coherent I suppose, but it’s definitely not strenuous. (Laughs) It’s still natural for me and I don’t know why that is but it just is. And yeah, there’s a lot of people focused on that to the point where when I did my duo record [Room] with Julian Lage, which has no effects whatsoever, people would say like, “Wow, I didn’t know you played acoustic.” I’m like, “Wait a sec...”

Langdon: “…That’s where it all started.” That’s a really great record, by the way.

Cline: One of my favorite things I’ve ever been able to do is play with Julian. I’ve done some pretty cool stuff, I mean, I really am lucky that I get to collaborate with so many amazing people but the communication level with Julian is really pretty magical. You can’t make things like that happen. They just have to be ready to happen. 

Langdon: You joined Wilco in 2004, how did that happen? How did you get roped into it?

Cline: (Laughs) I had met Jeff [Tweedy] when I was playing in 1996 on tour with a group called The Geraldine Fibbers and the Fibbers opened up for a couple weeks for Golden Smog [with whom Tweedy played at the time]. Carla Bozulich, the leader of the Gearldine Fibbers just kind of became friends with Jeff and so when—after the Fibbers broke up and Carla and I soldiered on as a duo called Scarnella—we’d play in Chicago, maybe some of the Wilco guys would come to hear us and Jeff, if he was in town, might come to hear us. Eventually Carla opened for Wilco in 2003—and I was playing with her and Ches Smith on drums and Devin Hoff on bass and I believe Dina Maccabee was playing violin—and that’s when, basically, I was thrown into Wilco world.

I think it was Glenn [Kotche]—after Leroy Bach decided to depart—he suggested to Jeff that maybe I’d be somebody he could call. I don’t know what Jeff was thinking. He was already getting Pat Sansone in the band to replace Leroy and I don’t know if he just kind of wanted some sort of rogue element or (laughs) I don’t know what he was looking for. And to be honest, I kind of needed rescuing at that point. Even though I was playing a lot, I was really struggling. And I wasn’t looking to join a rock band, and in fact had had a couple of offers to tour and do things that weren’t interesting that I had turned down, perhaps foolishly as I think back on it. Seriously, I mean it was pretty dumb of me to not go, you know, try to make my rent. But anyway, Jeff called Carla first because he knew that if I did the Wilco gig that it would have an effect on my ability to play a lot with her. But she knew what I knew, which was that I should give it a shot.

Langdon: You come from the jazz world and have done some avant-garde work. Though Wilco is certainly very experimental, it still has roots in folk and pop. Is finding a balance between those worlds something you consciously think about? 

Cline: No, no, I have to say, maybe it’s the nature of my brain and maybe it’s the nature of the guitar—it’s both probably—I feel really relaxed playing with Wilco and I think it’s because they’re all very relaxed and everybody plays with pure commitment. It’s not effortless because we’re not phoning it in—effortless makes it sound like we’re just sitting on our hands—but it is something that has a kind of automatic quality. We just go for it. It’s been true since the first gig that I played with Wilco. And stylistically, I just try to do what the music wants me to do.

It’s not a situation where I’m up there thinking like, gee I wish I could be improvising tonight, you know, and vice versa, when I’m improvising I’m not thinking, well gee I wish I was playing an arranged song today. I just go right into these modes rather seamlessly, and I think that the malleability and flexibility of the electric guitar has a lot to do with that as well.  

Langdon: Yeah, certainly. Your solo in “Side With the Seeds” is a great instance of those worlds colliding. I was 19 when Sky Blue Sky came out and that solo was so huge for me. It builds and builds to such a mind-blowing intensity. It’s one of my favorite guitar solos in the world.

Cline: Wow, oh thanks. It was really fun to come up with that song actually. Recording that record was quite an experience. It was very collaborative and yeah, I got away with playing a bunch of notes on a couple of songs.

Langdon: Yeah, I’ll say.

Cline: (Laughs) 

Langdon: Shortly after that, “Ashes of American Flags” featured Cain’s Ballroom as the setting for the beginning of the film. What was it about Cain’s that put it up there with Nashville’s Ryman Auditorium, Tipitina’s in New Orleans, and the other venues featured in that movie?

Cline: I mean, you just walk into that place, just the look of the floor, the idea of how many drinks were spilled in the wood and how many people danced and sweat and bled on that floor. The whole feeling of the room with those portraits, you just feel this legendary energy. It’s just one of those places. You don’t have to love country music to feel it. You just see these giant portraits and you just kind of feel what the space is like. I was just really happy to play there and I look forward to coming to Tulsa anyway. It’s just always been a good experience.

Langdon: I heard you in an interview with Terry Gross say Leon Russell was one of your idols as a kid.

Cline: Yeah, absolutely. I’m a huge Leon Russell fan, but—I feel really bad saying this, because I’m revealing something about my lack of thoroughness—I’ve really just listened to his early stuff as a solo artist. I’m not a completist. When I was a kid, PBS simulcast [The Homewood Sessions]. I watch that over and over and over again. I don’t need to hear any of his other stuff. I mean, I do eventually I’m sure and I’ll go back and listen to Carney again and enjoy it and whatever but there’s something about that particular period—watching the “Mad Dogs and Englishmen” movie, which is endlessly entertaining and some of my favorite music.

You know, for a long time no one talked about Leon Russell. It was like mentioning Laura Nyro. Like in the 90's, you just say these names and younger people just draw a blank. And you imagine that on “The Concert for Bangladesh,” for example, that George Harrison just turns the stage over to Leon and his people as part of that huge benefit concert. That’s how much sway Leon had over these peoples’ consciousness: they wanted to let him do his thing because they knew it was gonna make the show amazing, and it does. It’s incredible. So that was really influential for me: just that vibe, you know, the vibe of him and his charisma, and then that incredible song writing. I just love that stuff. As he kind of went on in his career, I kind of became like a jazz and jazz-fusion nerd so I wasn’t really following the rest of his career after a while, but I did get to meet him backstage at the MusiCares event years ago and that was exciting. 

John: That’s really cool. You’ll have to check out Les Blank’s film about Leon called “A Poem is a Naked Person” that was filmed in the early 70's but wasn’t released until just 2 years ago. It’s fascinating. It’s when he moved back to Tulsa and he built a studio here. It’s just a glimpse into that world. You’d love it.

Nels: Ok, I’m writing it down. I’m going analog here. I’m gonna definitely check that out.